Behavior-Focused Retirement Planning: Client Conversations, Guardrails, and Ongoing Plan Monitoring

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Okay, welcome everyone to Retirement Income Intel,
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our uh monthly webinar on financial planning. Give
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everybody a few minutes to get into the into the webinar here.
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Great to see everybody where you're coming in. Let us let us know where you're calling from and what the weather's like. Like I'm in uh Golden,
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Colorado, and it's 50 degrees and raining. So, I wish I were where Justin Peak is. And
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I won't turn my camera around and show you. Unfortunately, it's another one of those
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75 degrees and blue sky days. So hard. So hard for you. My condolences.
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All right. Looks like still a couple
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coming in. So, uh, as as people are all right. Oh, now the chat's blowing up.
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Let's see. 79 and sunny in Boston. That's not fair.
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Supposed to be worse in Boston than here. Buenos IRA.
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That is That might end up being our uh
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furthest away one here. Little Bend, Oregon. Love it. All right. Great to see everybody. Little uh little house
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cleaning. cleaning to uh start out with uh housekeeping. Um so this is a a
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webinar for um that we'll be offering an hour of CFPCE.
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So you have to make sure you're on for at least 50 minutes for that and that you fill out the survey at the end um so
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that we can you know put in your CFP number and everything. If you need any other sort of um evidence for other
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sorts of CE, we we usually do have um something that you can put in your files for that. A lot of a lot of C is self
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self-report. So um stick with us for that. Um but let's get to today's topic.
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So um this is a uh a joint webinar with with
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Andy's risk and um we we decided to do this because we although there's no you know relationship uh business
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relationship between Andy's risk and income lab we just found that there were a lot of um kind of uh similar themes
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that we were talking about around um around behavioral finance and how
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advisors work with clients through real you know real parts of life. And so we
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thought this would be a really interesting topic and also because um our guest today, Justin Peak, who is CEO
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and founder of Peak Wealth in Carl'sbad, California, thus the 75 degrees and sunny, um has a lot of experience with
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this and just in talking with them, I'm really looking forward to hearing his thoughts on on some of these things. Um
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I'm also joined by uh Neil Hickey of Andy's Risk, as I mentioned, another
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software firm. Um, and I know he thinks a lot about behavioral finance as well. Um, and Neil and I will comment on some
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of these issues, but uh, like so often when we have financial adviserss joining us on a panel, want to spend the
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majority of time talking with Justin about those real life experiences, you know, advice uh, for um, for adviserss.
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So, um, maybe I'll start by uh, letting uh, Justin maybe give us a feel for your
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background and and your practice there in California. Sure, absolutely. Thank you and thank you for the intro. So my goal, my hope
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today looking at the participant count is that you you find something I share uh at least one or two items that can
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help move your practices forward in some fashion. That's my goal today and hopefully that works for all of you. My
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background is a is a little bit of a hodgepodge. Uh I was 18 years with a
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large national firm, Edward Jones. I started in 2004 and I was uh what they
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call a scratch starter. So, I spent two almost two and a half years uh knocking
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on doors, residential doortodoor, the old school way, which was the the uh like sounds like Charles Dickens, the
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best and the worst of times. Um, but it gave me very good insight into the the
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citizens of my town and what they were thinking and what they were feeling. And thank goodness the introductions and the
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referrals and the the centers of influence took over to get me off those doors. And about three years ago in
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2022, I broke off and formed Peak Wealth. And
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you know, in in part due to the income labs in the Andes of the world, uh, financial planning is in such a
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wonderful place right now for the independent advisor. Um, and anyways, I
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love it. It's a passion. It's also a hobby. And uh we look after about 115
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120 client families and we are trying to provide everything that matters to them
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on a financial planning and life front. So that helped Justin. That's great. That's perfect. Thank you.
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Um, so in thinking about kind of what the, you know, the topic today, I was I
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was considering, okay, I think we're we're kind of trying to address two, I don't know if I'd call them mistakes,
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but it's definitely like a a pattern in kind of discussions about financial planning and talking with clients. Um,
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one is that we often focus on the client at the point of retirement as if it's
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like this one time, you know, sort of relationship. Um, and I know today we're going to talk a little bit more about,
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and by the way, it's it's that client and usually in good times, right? So, it's this sort of like assumption that
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everything is just, you know, stable. Um, you know, they're feeling good,
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you're feeling good, and you're just doing some retirement planning together. And today, we're going to talk a little bit more about like clients at other
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points in time at clients that either in life or maybe when times aren't as good
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and and communication there. Um and then the second is hopefully like you said
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Justin um great name by the way uh assuming that you know the way that
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maybe we've always framed things or sort of the received wisdom is always the way that we should do it and you know of
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course you know Andy's income lab both have uh something to say about that trying to sort of hey are there other
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ways to frame things other ways to talk about things other ways to do analysis other that can help um deliver for
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clients um you know a better experience, a better a better outcomes uh in life.
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So that's what I you know kind of wrapping up as I've thought about the sort of the topic for today. That's what I'm I'm hoping we can get your input
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Justin on kind of how to push beyond those tendencies. Like you said, if people can take away some ideas for how
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to adjust communication or or practice um that'd be that'd be awesome. Yeah, absolutely.
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Um all right, so let's um kick off here. Um, I know a big part of what we
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discussed before, um, Justin, is really like understanding our clients better. I know
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that's a big, um, and kind of the way they think. I'd love to have you just
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kind of talk a little bit more about what you mean by that as an adviser. What does that mean to understand how they think?
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Sure. And I I wrote a few things on the board. I always try to have an agenda for anything I'm doing, especially if I'm if there's now 279 of you watching
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this. I want to make sure that we hit some important things and if a client if a client honors us being on a Zoom or in
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our office, I want to make sure that we're organized and have some important things to share. So, I think the first
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thing is the the mindset that when you you know this is a hard career occupation profession
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to to crack into and you know there is an overabundance of resources. I mean,
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even the resources from the Andes and from the income labs, let alone 10 to 20 to 50 others, there there are so many
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resources that sometimes we try to just apply the way it's supposed to be or
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what we think a client wants to hear versus actually just meeting the client on their level, talking about what they
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want in the way that they want. And so, the first thing I wrote down behind me is what, why, how. And I feel this might
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be valuable to some of you watching this because let's let's go with a situation where someone was just referred to you,
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right? And I know that many of us have a process. We do a discovery call and then we have a first appointment. And some
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people require lots of information, some require no information. There's there's every which way of doing it. The way
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that we start is just with a simple conversation called what, why, how. So, if Justin, if you were the referral to
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me, I'm going to start and say, "What's causing you to call someone like me in my field today?"
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Yeah. And then in the appropriate manner, I'd ask, "And why? Why is that bubbling up
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to the top for you? And how do you see someone like me helping you with that?"
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And now we're at the heart, usually in just a couple minutes of what matters to that person. And to your point, we're
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I'm already starting to understand how they think and what they want to talk about versus here's us and here's our
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process and here's the steps you go through to work with us potentially. So, I'm not sure if I'm if I'm answering
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your question directly there, but I do think it starts and you can do that with a client appointment as well. Even one
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of like us, we have clients that have been with us for 20 plus years. What's the most important thing, Mary,
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that you can get out of our conversation today? Right? And then the why and then the how can I
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help you? How can we help you solve that? Right? So I think I I do feel that
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at times we need to do a better job of aligning oursel with the client in the way that they wish to be spoken to and
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and talk to them about the things that they want to talk about. I'll pause there. Tell me if I've if I've missed the most.
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Yeah. No, that was that was really great. And like you said, what why pretty easy to remember that one, too.
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Um, so yeah, so you're really getting at like let's understand where you are
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today, like what what what's actually going on in your head. I think what I hear you saying is well well you
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mentioned one mistake which is like go right past the client or prospect and just start talking about yourself or
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your or your uh business. Um, and the other one I guess what I'm hearing you
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say is sometimes there's there's something that's very, you know, at the front of mind for them and um, like
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acknowledging that getting it out in the open is going to it's probably going to
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s solve a lot of issues where you miss each other on communication because if if you have some grand design, you know,
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I think about it as you know, you get get advice about like don't be don't just be there waiting to talk, right? actually listen and and uh you know uh
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react to that instead of just hoping you can be on your agenda. Um are there any other
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Sorry, go ahead. Oh, go ahead. Yeah, go ahead. I was going to just say are there other mistakes, you know, that that um maybe
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early people earlier in their uh career or something might make in those ear that initial um discussion.
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Yeah. And I don't I don't know that they're mistakes because I didn't know anything. I've learned from making every
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single mistake like probably many that are on here. I saw someone chime in. They were at Ed Jones, too, and and walked the same gauntlet that I have.
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So, I mean, there isn't anything I haven't done, uh, good or bad, if you
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will, mistake or doing it the right way. Uh, but I I feel that if you can if you
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can understand that if you were to like I have a I have a street right here that I'm facing that you can't see that
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behind my laptop I'm staring at right now. I know without a doubt 99% at least
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probably hundred if I were to ask them the the the quintessential Nick Murray question. Do you know exactly how much
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you need in order to retire comfortably but not just that remain comfortably retired? I know the honest answer is a
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no from all of them. So I think when you're newer and veteran just remember I
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I drew a little terrible gift here, right? Prize. Um you know we are the
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prize. We have the prize. We have the gift to give everyone. So just give people a chance to discuss who they are,
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what they want, and maybe spend more time on. So what have you done so far to
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solve this? Tell me a little bit about your history. Have you had advisors before? How did those relationships work
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out? I mean, we're here talking today, so something may not have worked out. Like address the obvious, too. Why are
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we here today? And what do you think from your perspective, from your participation led
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to that not working? And what do you think you do right in the relationship? What do I need to know? What did my
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team, what do we need to know about you before working together? Like spend as much time as you can on who they are and
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where they've been. And sometimes you can open it up with, hey, tell me your story.
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I mean, that question, especially as a business owner, tell me your story. I mean, come on. I I'll think of my own family that my parents manufacture
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specialty metal polish of all things, right? If I were sitting with them, I'd ask them, I just say, "Come on, people don't land in manufacturing a specialty
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metal polish. How'd this happen? Tell me your story." Yeah. So, what is when you're having these
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discussions, you you do want to know what's on their mind. All of those kind of proximal things, right? Why they're sitting in front of you, maybe they had
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an adviser before. Um, are there particular things you're, you know,
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trying to figure out? I mean, part of it might just be getting to know them, but are there things that you're going to
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like, what would you be writing down if you were taking notes? Say that last part again. What
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What would you be writing down if you were taking notes? Like, okay, okay, I'm going to need this for like this is, oh, I just I just discovered
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like one of the keys to this relationship or to this um problem. Well, the one thing that I wish for my
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whole career that we're all getting now is some type of AI notetaker, right? So, first of all, I would make sure that
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anyone on here, provided your firm allowed, another reason I am where I am built the firm is that we didn't have a
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noteaker. Um, use an AI notetaker because you can't be present with
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someone, listening for the intonation, listening for that little thing that you
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can pause and go, that's interesting that you you use that word in particular to describe that. Tell me what's behind
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that. Why why did you say X? You can't do that while you're scribbling down taking notes. So, the one thing is I
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would tell you try to either have another person, another body in the room to take notes if you don't have an AI noteaker or use an AI noteaker. Um, but
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for me, I'm and again, this is different to the newer advisor, so I will try to speak to both parties. You know, when
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you're a newer advisor, you you're going to need to take on
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clients that may not be with you for life, and that's okay. And you will need to because you need to survive and you need to build a practice, right? So what
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I'm seeing is a lot of emphasis in the occupation of find your niche and only work with those that's great when you've
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made it and you've amassed a certain amount of snowfall that you can now kind of carve it out and make it what you want. Um but I'd say you know to the
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newer advisor what is it that you can offer someone? So back to that idea of the gift. Is there anything holding
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anyone back on here veteran or newer advisor alike to ask that question of
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someone? Hey by the way I see you at coffee all the time. This is this is a true story. We have a new client from
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bumping into the c bumping into him at the coffee shop all the time. Hey, would it be at least worth 15 minutes if we do
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things of a little different flavor to find out how we do it? Would you have interest? He's like, I'd love to do
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that. Right? So, I I wrote down, do you sound like everyone else? If you sound like
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everyone else, then don't expect that, you know, don't expect significantly different results.
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you can take normal things and and change the way that you ask them. So, I'm deviating from your question here, Justin. I hope that's okay.
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That's okay. Um, but when you're talking about income, like, let's say retirement income, right? It's part of what we're
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here for. And I love the guard rails obviously of income lab, and I love that. Um, I remember when Johnny first
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used the analogy of uh GPS, right, versus pass or fail. Um, and you could probably repeat that better than I am,
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so I won't butcher it right now, but just that um just that that concept of
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talking to people in ways that like, hey, what's a comfortable amount for you, Justin? If you dare let my get my
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income get below this, I'm going to be furious. I'm banging on your residential door, right? That's a more fun
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reactionary way to engage a client than what's the minimum amount of income you'd like to have.
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So, sometimes it's um it's just saying things a different way. So, you know, hey, if it's Saturday night, I want to
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know how you work a little bit better because at time to time we're going to have significant market events and I need to know I want to know, you know,
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how to talk to you, meal, let's say, um, if you're going out for dinner on this Saturday, you know, you're going out for
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dinner, is that planned and booked the Tuesday before, or are you waking up
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Saturday morning, have a nice brunch, and then you're like, "All right, what are we going to do for dinner tonight?" Like, which one of those are you? that
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tells me how prepared I need to be or not, you know, or my team to engage you.
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Um, so anyways, I'll pause there. But yeah, Justin Fitzpatrick. So I'm the
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challenged one that has two Justin's on a on a um so I'll I'll go JP Justin Peak for
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you and then Justin Fitzpatrick, you'll know I'm asking you a question if I don't start with JP. So um just JP
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love what you're talking about. Um certainly something at Andy's risk that we believe in 100% and have really sort
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of built our platform around which is those deeper conversations with clients, right? It's not it's not just about sort
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of cookie cutter services. I can build this investment portfolio for you. It's
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really about providing a much more meaningful sort of enjoyable I think
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what is the way you're descri describing it wealth management um you know interaction um and and how do you do
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that I mean from our perspective and and we launched in 2018 it's it's all about
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sort of understanding deeper who you're facing off with right there's you know risk tolerance what's their risk
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appetite and we do all of that and we've been doing all of that since we launched but but also sort of sort of the softer
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things, sort of the behavioral attributes and and how do you discover the way people are going to react JP to
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the questions you're asking, right? Um and and that'll help you determine how potentially you're going to work with
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them going forward. And so so from our perspective, you're you're hitting the nail on the
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head and what we want to do is give you the tools to help that conversation along. So so love the conversation right
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now and and we'll continue to add where I see fit. Well, and on that note, I remember meeting Helen for the first
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time um over a Zoom and I mean even your risk appetite questionnaire, right?
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Immediately what it does for those that are familiar and those that aren't, you know, I'm sure they do demos, right? But the first question is how would a friend
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describe you, right? Immediately you're getting into the creative side instead of how much
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punishment can you take? Right? Yes, you got to ask those questions too. The red and the green, how much of this can you
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tolerate? But, you know, when you when you start asking people how would your friend describe you or now you're on a
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TV game show, right? Like I always wish I could have been on The Price is Right. I grew up with that one as a kid. You know, um the once in a-lifetime, you
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know, you're you're utilizing language again that's now speaking that the client gets the client understands
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better. Uh versus just the do you prefer down 10 and up 15. I mean, that changes.
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I mean, that's that's fluid, right? Ask them in the heart of darkness. Ask them in the giddiness of, you know, all-time
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highs. That changes depending on the weather, right? The market weather. Um,
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and that I think the the fascination for me with Andes is that ability to take
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those behavioral questions, learn about my clients again and in another way. Um, and then it also
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obviously you have features that streamline the whole process of onboarding and and what have you. So yeah, we to your point, we put those in
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into reports and policy statements let that let you have that conversation. But but it goes back to the way you describe
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your conversation in the coffee shop. I mean to me that's much more of an enjoyable conversation with a client that you're going to get sort of
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attributes of that client like you would using some of the tools that we have that you wouldn't otherwise. And so um
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so that that's an important part of understanding understanding the full picture as you describe it.
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So, I think that also helps. You know, I started out this section by saying, "What do you mean by understanding how clients really think?" And Justin, you
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shared the um uh you know, kind of the the way you might start a conversation. But then I
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think what I'm hearing you say is like, let's get away from some of this more, I
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don't know, uh mathematical or robotic kind of kind of stuff. Not that I mean,
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believe me, I I love analysis. It's great, but that's not really like a a conversation that's going to be uh
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inspiring or make somebody feel like, you know, feel great when they when they turn off the Zoom or leave your office.
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Um like you really, you know, tried to understand them. Um so I I must that I
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can imagine that that builds a lot, you know, a lot more trust and things. Um you've also used the words um you've
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you've talked about complimenting and coaching clients. Um what do you mean by that and how would you say that's sort
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of different than just you know giving them advice or you know analyzing their situation?
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Yeah. Um so I I've had lots of surrounded myself with lots of great mentors and coaches and this started
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with the and any Ed Jones folks out there will know the name Tom BTO Jason Selk and just that idea that um we're
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naturally like the human existence is to focus on the negative. Oh, I don't have
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this yet. My my business isn't of that size yet. I wish I had more of my idea. Like, we always naturally focus on the
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things that discourage us. It's just the way that humans are built. And I think we forget that clients go through that,
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too. So, you know, as an example of of coaching a client, I would imagine
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everyone on here who has had a client for at least a year, they've been doing some very good things. Maybe they've
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been diligently saving. they followed the, you know, the monthly, quarterly, whatever savings process or they stuck
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through it when we had some volatility. There are there are things that they can be complimented on and what's stopping
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you from from bringing them a little bit of that positivity to just call and say, "Hey, Neil, I know the markets are all
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hunky dory right now, but you sat still and did exactly what you were supposed to do back at this period, and I just
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wanted to say, "Well done." Because not everybody does that. And by you doing that over and over, you're going to be
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immensely successful with your investing. So, you might not even realize that you did something good there. I just want to take a minute to
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tell you that you did. And then I might go into,
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you know, a little bit of a coaching on something in the future. I And this is something that I I think could benefit
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everybody here, which is I also want you to to be very laser focused not on the
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value of your accounts, but on the quantity of shares that you have. And what I mean by that is, you know,
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most people, they log in on their phone, their laptop, they wait for their statement, and they judge success based
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on the value of their portfolio. That's their measuring stick. It's the wrong measuring stick, the correct measuring
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stick. And it's it's really important now before things go haywire again, as they do typically once every five to six
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years. Um, and that is Sorry, I got distracted by the the chat coming up.
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I want you to take a look at your quantity. I wish I could turn off the chat so it didn't bubble up, but I want
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you to focus on the share quantity that you have because that's the number that you should be looking at and making sure it goes up every quarter, every year.
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Let me explain what I mean. The market never came and put a gun to someone's head and said, "Sell me out of your
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stock, out of your bond, out of your ETF fund, what have you." People hurt themselves, but oftentimes it's because
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they forget what they have. you know, if I go to real estate. I don't know about you guys, but you know, especially in
24:32
Southern California, everybody understands real estate, but especially in certain pockets of the country, uh,
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San Diego is one of them. So, I say, I want you to see those quantity of shares, and imagine those are little rental units. And just like your rental
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units, if you own them, they're going to increase in value over time. And provided your mortgage is less than your
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rent from the renter, you're going to be paid a little bit of income along the way. So, it's your number of properties
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that will dictate your value. and success long term. That's what I want you focused on right now. And why, Neil?
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Because when we go through that next big market decline, I don't want you doing what all
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I'm thinking of a nice word to call them, what all the fickle public are going to do, which is focus on the value. You're going to focus on your
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quantity of shares. And if that investment property that you were waiting to buy is all of a sudden not
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selling for a dollar, but it's selling for 65 cents, what are you doing? You're
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buying it. you might even buy two. So, compliment plus coach is just a very
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natural normal way of, you know, gives a good reason to call a client. Um, and
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the other one that I was doing last week that it was literally just to say thank you is, you know, if someone's having a
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tougher day, like I've had many. Um, I was married in July of05 and in that
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month I netted 80 cents. looked really good to my in-laws, right? Oh, wow. She
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picked well, right? 80 cents. Um,
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what I want to to share there, sorry, I lost my own uh trade of thought there. Um, is, you know, when you're going
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through the tougher times and maybe you're a little down on your progress or your business isn't where you want it to
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be yet, like take pride and look backward of where you were. And last week, I called a whole bunch of clients
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just to say thank you. we have a segment of client in a specific niche and I just called and say, you know what, I always
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dreamed of having a good long-term relationship with you and we have it and it continues to grow. I just want to say
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thank you. That's it. It's all I got. That's awesome. And it was it was great. I talked to
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four of our most important clients and they loved it. So that's awesome. I know we'll we're kind
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of going to shift into more of discussing basically standing on what you were just
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talking about um about you know when things are going bad and so on. Um and I
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wanted to for those of you who don't know I know Justin you've mentioned it a few times this discussion of um of guard
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rails and I know that that was also in the the title of uh of today's webinar. So I wanted to just take a second to tie
27:09
those to some of these themes. Yeah. Um, one theme would be, um, what you said at
27:16
the beginning, Justin, is if you're just doing what everybody else does that you don't you don't really stand out. But another is talking with people kind of
27:22
where they actually live and think and getting away from some of the um, uh,
27:29
you know, the jargon or the, you know, the framing that maybe we've received from 20 30 years of of kind of standards
27:36
in financial planning and and actually talking to people in a way that makes more sense to them. So, um, what Justin
27:42
was referring to, what JP was referring to is, uh, being able to tell somebody
27:48
basically given your situation, given your resources, your, you know, age,
27:54
your expectations, your, um, you know, goals and so on, what can you spend? Um,
28:01
and and so that's, you know, I'm showing you income lab here. And so these folks, they have, you know, call it 2.8
28:06
million, but they got other stuff, too. You know, it's it's all the stuff you can live on. Social Security, pensions, those rental units and so on. Um, and
28:15
you know, given the resources, there's not one number that you can spend, but there's a range, and it's not
28:22
way outside of that range. I like to say if you, you know, grew up, if you were a a school teacher your whole life, like
28:27
many people in my family were, you're not going to be flying private jets. You're not expecting to. It's just, you know, but still, you want to know what
28:33
you can spend. Um, and I think what is interesting about this particular
28:39
approach is you're not looking at stats. You're looking at dollar amounts. You're saying, "Okay, given these are your
28:44
resources, and like I said, they've got social security and other things, too." So, don't don't start dividing 19,000 uh
28:51
by 2.8 million. They've got other things to to source this. But then being able
28:56
to say, "Okay, how we do and where are we?" Guard rails are a way of talking
29:01
with clients about that question. Um where hey if things get a little bit
29:07
better we'll be able to spend more. So 19,000 will go to 20. Um and if things
29:13
get worse we may tap the brakes and spend less or make some other change to the portfolio. So, I think we may have
29:19
mentioned this the other day, Justin, when we were talking, but I've had a lot of adviserss talk to me recently about how when we've had, you know, rough
29:28
markets or something and and that happened recently, um, you know, after all the tariff talk or you can go back
29:34
to 2022 and think about that or you can think about 2020 with COVID, you know, it's just there's always something um
29:41
that if we're just saying I if if we just kind of mouth platitudes of like,
29:48
"Well, just stay the course. You'll be fine." Clients can start to
29:54
wonder, "Well, does Justin actually have any plan? Does he know? Or is this kind of like fingers crossed behind his back
29:59
hoping hoping things will be good?" So, that's the the really nice psychological side of guard rails is you can say, "No,
30:05
no, no. there is a point where we would consider doing something and and one thing we might do is take a look at your
30:12
spending and hey, you know, maybe we push off that vacation till the next year or we, you know, go to the brew pub
30:18
instead of the steakhouse. You know, there are things we can do and here's the point where we would do it, but you're not there yet. Um, and so that's
30:25
a really nice kind of client communication aspect to framing
30:31
things in terms of guardrails instead of what you can run into with, you know, probability of success type stuff where
30:38
it's, oh, your 90% probability of success went down to 75.
30:43
What does that mean? I mean, you know, depending on your personality, that might mean sleepless nights, right? I
30:50
mean, it might be might be really um, you know, a bad move. So I think you know beyond this sort of understanding
30:56
your client what we're also after here is is understanding you know how they will react to particular ways you you
31:04
present things and you just Justin your example of you know shares versus um
31:09
balances I think is exactly that like we're you know there's not there's not a
31:14
a given way you have to talk to clients there's not a way they must understand
31:20
their retirement plan I just used probability success. No one ever walked into you to Peak Wealth and said, "Well,
31:26
I'm here for my probability of success, you know." No, they want other things from you. So, I think that's um
31:31
Yeah. They don't say, "Am I passing or failing today?" They say, "Hey, how much can we pull out of the account?" Right. Exactly.
31:37
Right. I mean, it's And I I have a couple props that I'll share because this is um part of It wasn't on the
31:44
board, but part of what I wanted to and I saw that comment. Hey, can we go over the board by the end? We'll do that. Um,
31:50
I learned this and I cannot remember who I learned this from and I would attribute it if I could remember, but I just cannot. But it's a genius idea. I
31:58
grew up in England a long time ago, but I have a meter stick. I have about a dozen. I buy them a dozen at a time. Meter sticks, old school wooden meter
32:05
sticks. And at the appropriate time in the appointment, it can be with a new
32:10
potential client. It can be with an existing that we've not yet done this. I want to use what you guys do to always
32:17
be able to look my clients in the face and say, "You have an incredibly strong portfolio built just for you, giving you
32:25
the greatest predictability that we can give you." But at the same time, that's
32:30
all being done so that you are freed up to focus on what really matters in your life. And what I will do is I will take
32:39
the ruler stick and I have painters, the blue painters tape, right? It doesn't
32:44
pull paint off the wall. Um, and if they're in this case 65 years old, I
32:50
will blue tape out up to 65 and I will blue tape out from age 80 to
32:57
100. And you don't even need to see the whole thing, but you you get the perspective and you all know where I'm
33:02
going here. at the appropriate moment, I'll pull this out with the client, potential client, and just say, "Hey,
33:09
the reason we take the the time and and the effort and built the resources for clients with what we do on the technical
33:15
side is so that you and I and the family, we can really focus on this gap right here." Because yes, centinarians
33:22
are the fastest growing part of the population. But let's be real, if things go nicely,
33:28
once you get north of 80, all that travel, all those fun things get tougher to do. Yes. I want them to like answer
33:33
along with me. And I know 90-year-olds that are able to do all those things. And I hope that's you, too.
33:39
But once we get north of 80, things typically start to change. And that's if life doesn't come and smack us in the
33:45
face earlier. So, you know, what do you need to know
33:50
or want to know about our process and what we do so that you have that comfort and that faith? Because this is what I
33:57
really want my team. We really want to focus on with you. That's awesome. And now
34:03
and they get it or they don't. And I think someone's found the attribute the attribution. So, thank you if they did.
34:09
Nice. Ted CL. Yeah. And it's a meter sticks because you need those numbers on there. It's perfect. And I And if it's the right family and I
34:15
feel like they actually get it and and also, you know, again, if you're the newer adviser, sometimes you got to take
34:20
on, you know, you got to kiss a few frogs. Um, but if you're at the stage where you're only taking on the ideal,
34:25
if they don't get this and they just want to return to, well, what is your portfolio returned?
34:30
Then that tells me that they really don't get it. Um, I don't care if someone out there is getting you 14% a
34:36
year or nine or seven. If you got a teenage driver and they hit the plastic
34:42
surgeon and then that surgeon, she sues for lifetime earnings and you got to settle a $20 million judgment against you. It didn't matter if you had 14% a
34:50
year or nine or seven. Like there's so many things to take care of within a family that we really only, you know,
34:56
have interest at this stage of those that get this that get that life is precious, that time is fleeting. And I
35:03
do have that teenage daughter and and she just got her license a week ago. So, we're we're going through something over
35:08
here. It's very good. It's it's amazing, but also very nerve-wracking. Nice. and I'm wondering how much your uh
35:15
insurance is going up, but I don't want to know yet. The license hasn't arrived in the mail and my agent
35:20
said that when she gets the license, you call me, we add her and then I tell you how much it is in a moment.
35:25
Okay. Yeah, Justin Fitzpatrick, I may have jumped in and shown a slide. I'm not sure if it came up. I know while while
35:32
JP was talking, but if if I can just kind of pile on to his his comments and some of yours real quickly um and share
35:39
share a picture. Um I can share that. Um the I think you sent over some slides. I
35:44
know you were having trouble sharing. So let me know if um if this is
35:50
the next um keep going please. One more. So this is great. So I mean this is
35:56
exactly what JP was talking about and and Justin I think when when you were showing what income labs um can do and
36:02
and and understanding the numbers um I think you know for all of us and uh JP
36:08
was was speaking to this. It's really important to understand sort of what's the behavioral side and and how may they
36:15
act. I mean you we you may talk to JP correct me if I'm wrong and and every adviser may understand sort of what the
36:22
risk appetite and even more so what the risk tolerance of a client is you know
36:27
using a tool like Andy's or other tools you know based on their portfolio and their account but what are they going to
36:33
do based on their behavioral attributes when the market starts going haywire
36:39
right and and how are you going to understand that beforehand and how are you going to engage with your client
36:46
um going forward based on based on those things. So for example, you know, the market could be, you know, going haywire
36:52
and someone's a trend follower and you've identified them as a trend follower through through various tools
36:57
like Andes. Um and and you know, you just tell them, hey, hold on. Just don't
37:02
buy what's ever hot. You know, we've talked about sort of the way you may react. Let's talk through why you might
37:08
want to make this next investment or purchase or what you're thinking about. At the same time, someone may be a
37:14
safety seeker and they may be concerned and and this allows you to say, "Okay, don't panic about the headlines. We
37:20
understand what's going on. I understand how you may act in this particular environment." So again, I you were
37:27
speaking to this, but there's really two sides of of of the equation, the analytical and the behavioral. and and
37:33
Justin Fitzpatrick, if I can bring you back one slide. Um, hopefully uh folks have seen this study by by Vanguard, but
37:41
sort of we live by this because we are very focused on behavioral finance as part of our part of our overall package.
37:47
And when you put in your portfolio and then you put in sort of understand their risk tolerance um as well as their
37:53
behavioral attributes, you can have a constructive conversation and say, "Hey, based on my understanding and our
38:00
conversations, you know, here's what the potential impacts can be to your portfolio if you make some decisions
38:07
based on sort of some of the things that are built into um versus if you just stayed the course with our investment
38:13
process. So, just a couple a couple things to highlight and round out uh JP what you were saying and I think Justin
38:19
what you were talking about with sort of the income plan. Well, and you jog me for my third bullet
38:25
which is Nick Murray uh technique the question behind the question like Neil ask me a just ask me a random
38:32
question. Um who's your favorite football team? That's really interesting. What makes
38:37
you ask? So we're naturally designed to answer a question when we're asked one. Yep.
38:43
But why do we why why do we who said we have to? So if it's a first appointment or if it's an existing appointment, um
38:51
you have to be gentle with the phraseology sometimes. Sometimes it's inappropriate, but I'm a big fan of of
38:57
asking, you know, the what is the question. So if someone comes down and sits in the first appointment, let's say
39:03
they're referred and the first thing they get after in the first five minutes is fees. Cost,
39:08
what do you what does it cost? Um, I actually do literally say I say, "Well, we charge a fair price." But that's
39:15
really interesting for that to come up, you know, so early in a first meeting.
39:20
Can you tell me what what makes you ask at this moment in time? What what's behind that question or go
39:27
to the existing client to uh really scary times, you know, and I do want to talk a bit about that with with your
39:33
income guardrails in a second. So, let's bookmark that. We haven't had a sustained 30% decline environment since
39:39
the Great Recession, you know, COVID. Yeah, sure. We dropped whatever it was, the 33 and 34 days or 34 and 33 days.
39:47
Um, and then a few months later it was back because we thought we were all going to die and then we didn't. So, we
39:53
have not had a couple years of a sustained decline. And that's a whole another conversation. But imagine in
39:58
those scarier moments, you know, you can ask that say that's, "Hey, you're thinking again, we always I always try
40:05
to compliment." Hey, you're thinking about and asking the right questions, but tell me a little bit more here. How do you and let's say they talked about
40:11
some apocalypse dour, right? Whatever the latest one is. How do you see us getting there from here?
40:18
Again, just let them get it out versus, oh, you don't have to worry
40:23
about it because here's a chart. like that's not, you know, nobody, you deserve to get a slap across the face.
40:29
Like really, you threw a chart in their face at their scared, most scared moment in time. Um, I just feel that sometimes
40:36
it's okay to pause and just say, hm, I find that really interesting. What I'll
40:42
answer you absolutely momentarily, but what what's making you ask that right now?
40:48
Or what's the concern behind the the question there? And it just leads to better, oh, well, I was just told I
40:53
should ask that. I was told that was one of the first things I should ask an adviser when I sit down. Okay, fantastic. Where did you learn that
40:59
from? What were you reading? Let me help you out. I'll be your consultant now. Let me tell you some other things you should ask.
41:04
Yeah, it leads to great conversations as you said and and listen, you're building a relationship, right JP? I mean, so as
41:10
you this isn't a one-time conversation. So as you capture that information and that's what we try to help do is you
41:16
capture that information over time you can go back and you know reference conversations like that you've had and
41:22
and reiterate how they reacted and how you see them potentially reacting. So it's it's really building an ongoing
41:29
relationship and and and understanding the client. Yep. Yep. and the guardrails come coming
41:34
back to uh guardrails in the income side and that's if it's okay I'm just going to go to my fourth bullet which isrict
41:41
friction in your process and I wrote the next bear. So
41:46
I think we haven't had one in so long that there are a lot of veterans and I'm seeing people pop up on the chat. I
41:51
don't know who that was about Nick Murray but I'm going to his last inerson conference in a few weeks which I'm super excited about. Bummed that it's
41:57
his last one. Um, but when we go through those sustained downturns, there are
42:02
many of us, myself included, that are really excited for it, for what it does for growth of our businesses. Because if
42:10
you're couple things, most people, even perhaps even watching this right now, have not been and and served many
42:17
families during a significant sustained market decline. And I'm not proud of it because now we look after 115ish
42:24
families as I shared at the outset. But I had 374 families that I was in care of
42:30
during the Great Recession and it was too many by about 200. Um, and all I did
42:36
all day was field calls like everybody did. Uh, but when I'm talking about what is the friction in your process, you got
42:43
to make sure your existing clients that you've got a a process to tell them that you're okay. Here's what you can spend.
42:48
Here's your guard rails. Hey, let's see if you feel indifferently about risk. We know they will. But here's let's just do
42:54
a reset on the Andes questions so that we can just see if things really have materially changed. Um I advocate for
43:02
and I guess this is a a PSA announcement. Those of you that you are the only person answering the phone, you
43:08
got to change that before the next significant downturn because I train admins on how to funnel concerned client
43:15
calls. You can't just have someone answer. First of all, if it's you, you can't go prospect
43:22
clients that are ready to move because no one's talking to them or they've got a amateur advisor or too new of an adviser is just giving them like here's
43:29
a chart don't worry. Um like you've got to be zoned in ready to go talk to as
43:35
many families as possible to bring them on as clients which means you got to look after your existing clients. So for
43:41
example during that that downturn I had a model where my admins knew to say hey
43:46
I know you're concerned Neil is it about the whole portfolio or just an investment? What is it? Okay, great. And
43:52
and just give me an idea here pain-wise. Is this like a 10 out of 10 like I'm ready to sell or like no, I'm just a
43:58
little bit curious on how Justin, you know, what he thinks of this. Okay, great. And is this something that he can
44:03
call you back in the next 48 hours or do you need to hear from him like in the next 30 minutes
44:10
and then they just teed up the calls? Because if it's one of our No, no, no. I'm just totally curious what Justin thinks. No biggie. I'm not gonna I never
44:16
sell anything. Well, guess what? that can be pushed to the person that's like, "No, we're new to peak wealth. We're
44:22
extremely concerned. It it's our first downturn and we would like to talk to him today." I want to know that because
44:28
then we can overd deliver by, you know, I'll call them in the next 15 minutes if I can. So, when I'm talking about friction, like how long does it take to
44:34
on board a client, you know, with Andy's we can do the risks going right into the recommended peak wealth portfolio and
44:40
we're like done and dusted. um on the existing client side, you know, the guard rails running all those past
44:47
horrible environments and still showing them that you're okay. This is this is as good as we can give it to you. But if
44:54
you're really concerned, you know, tell me more about that question, you know, that concern behind the concern. Um
44:59
anyways, I'll pause there. But that's what I'm talking about when I say uh friction in your process because there
45:04
are a lot of us that I don't want the carnage to occur to people. Please
45:10
understand that. But it's common as dirt. We all know this. Every 5 to 6 years we have a significant downturn and
45:16
we haven't had one in so long and certainly not one that's sustained. Um
45:22
and I just know that we're you know our business will probably double during that period. Yeah, there's um I remember um one of
45:30
our uh master classes we also um I think uh I think um Ryan Townsley called it a
45:36
tale of two bare markets and I think he was basically talking about that the friction in his process and he was
45:41
comparing if I remember right maybe it was the great great you know global financial crisis versus 2022 or
45:48
something like that and exactly what you were saying you imagine just just reactive phone calls from 300 uh
45:54
families versus no, you've already thought all through. And in his case, he uses the guardrails. And I think he said
46:00
he actually did like a video just showing people, reminding them how it worked and sent it out at scale um to to
46:07
people who needed it. Um yeah, just a totally different way. Again, like
46:12
reminding people what to focus on and and you as their guide, you you you
46:18
know, assuming that you have a great relationship because of all the ways that you've managed the communication, they trust you, right? So, um, so you
46:25
saying, "Hey, focus on this. This is what we need to focus on." That that that has a big effect. Um, the last
46:31
topic we had for your day that I did want to hit, and you did mention it with your with your, um, your yard stick or
46:36
meter stick there was walking with clients, um, as they age or maybe have
46:41
health changes like you said, might not even necessarily be uh, you know, at those later ages. um
46:48
what do you do in your practice to kind of think about that, manage for it, cognitive decline and so on?
46:55
Yeah, great question. So, a few different things to share. Um
47:01
where do I want to go first? So, I would say first and foremost, I'll talk to everybody that's on here directly. Um I
47:09
want you to imagine for a minute that you have forgotten your banking password. you are on your whatever Wells
47:16
Fargo, Bank of America, who cares, and you hit the reset password button.
47:23
Did that reset password link just go to your primary Gmail iCloud account? Okay,
47:31
Justin's nodding his head because that's almost all of you. I bet it didn't go to a private email that nobody knows about
47:40
to which you have a 22 minimum randomized alpha numeric password only
47:46
written down on a piece of paper and you're safe at home that that password reset link got sent
47:53
to. So first and foremost is understanding the world that we're in today that walking alongside the client
47:59
is understanding what they're facing. we hear about and we've had it happen three times this year uh uh clients almost
48:06
being victimized. Um I feel and and has this in regards to
48:12
a cognitive quiz. Sometimes people might hear, "Oh, how do you give someone a cognitive quiz? How offensive is that?"
48:18
Well, it's it's quite easy if you present it properly. You know, Mr. or Mrs. Smith, I want you to imagine that
48:24
like Neil's the older client right now. Neil, I want you to go build a website. I bet you could do it, right? You go
48:29
onto a site, whatever. But, oh, now you're up against, by the way, I'm going to see who does it faster, better, more
48:35
thoroughly. It's you versus Apple. All of Apple, right? You're up against this
48:40
machine. It's not the best analogy, guys. I'm just trying my best here. But for that older person to not feel so
48:47
embarrassed and not feel so guiltridden uh when they get taken advantage of is
48:52
they're up against a machine. They're up against nation states that are absolutely pouring millions and millions
48:58
of dollars um hypnosis, behavioral modification, neural linguistic programming. We have a client that after
49:06
a two-hour phone call with a random stranger got it got prevented but willingly went
49:13
down to their bank, forget the details of how in less than two hours a sane person without dementia got to that
49:20
place, went down to their bank and withdrew $19,000 cash and was going to give it to someone. I'm not going to get
49:27
into the details of the how and why, but an hour and a half to two hours on the phone with a stranger leading to going
49:33
down to your and this is someone that you would like is is with it is sane.
49:38
So, um the first things first when I talk about like cognitive decline is understanding the environment that we're in. Um and I do think it starts with all
49:45
of us because if you answered like, oh yeah, it goes to my main Gmail if I hit reset password. You're part of the
49:51
problem. It means you haven't educated yourself on the solution to then be able to go educate your clients and that's a
49:57
tremendous value ad for us right so we we look at ourselves and our process our
50:03
process is kind of this uh this gift I do feel that we are the prize our process is the prize we seal up all the
50:10
cracks so that that doesn't happen to our families we we actually encourage them either some of them we will pay for it we build
50:17
it as part of their financial planning fee others they pay for it Um, anyways, I just feel like if it's me
50:24
against someone else and I'm talking about that and it's a family that cares about that finite lifespan, right back
50:30
to the ruler stick, I feel that we're going to win every time versus, well, you know, look, we're a fiduciary and
50:36
we've got the best interest and we get good returns and like really we're protecting the whole family unit here.
50:43
So, I'll pause there. I'm digressing. I'm on just a couple hours sleep. Sorry. Back to you guys. If I could just make a
50:50
quick a quick comment to to JP's which is we agree 100% because we're hearing
50:55
it from from Justin Peak we're hearing it from other adviserss could be a sensitive conversation and what we're
51:02
trying to do is normalize the conversation through our whole profiling process. So JP mentioned it. We do have
51:08
a cognitive ability test. And what it is is you, you know, it's something that you you build a baseline at a certain
51:14
age with one of your clients, let's say 65, and you you have that as part of your regular profiling and conversation,
51:21
and then you can see over time, are there changes to their responses, right? And if there are changes, then we
51:28
provide the ability or you may have the ability in your own systems to put a notation on the account where you where
51:34
you have protection, whether it's a durable power of attorney, whether it's some other protection that that you put
51:41
in place and you and your team know that based on that history that you've built up through that process. So, um, again,
51:47
could could be sensitive. We hope people can normalize it through through the tools that we and and and others put in
51:54
front of them. Yeah. So other than other than scaring me uh with that wasn't
52:00
trying to scare you. Sorry. So on that point though, do you get um good
52:06
sort of compliance and action on things like this? I got to imagine it could be,
52:11
you know, it's kind of like doing a um an estate plan like you said, even just getting those documents, durable power
52:17
of attorney, things like that. It's not the first thing people want to do and most people will probably put everything else above it on their list. How do you
52:24
manage to actually get people to act? Um, it goes back to where we started the
52:30
their personal what, why, how. So, if you if I were to go through that process, the most important thing to me
52:37
in my world are my two girls. If someone were talking to me about if
52:42
you don't do this, you're jeopardizing everything else for them.
52:47
Like, you act or you don't. And if you act, you'll be our client. If you're just gonna procrastinate and shove it,
52:53
we're not going to work with you. Um, so I think you I don't know that you
52:59
can motivate people. He or she, what is the phrase? He or she convinced against their will remains unconvinced still,
53:07
right? So, if you're not getting to that route, I it'll be tough because you're just that annoying reminder. There's certain
53:14
technologies for sure. We've partnered with an estate planning solution because I am so sick and tired of someone saying, "Oh, I know. We saw you eight
53:21
months ago and you told us to go get the estate plan and you gave us a couple fantastic referrals and we still didn't get it done."
53:28
Yeah. I'm like, "Enough of this nonsense." Like, here here's the link. Go do it. I paid for it for you. Just get your trust
53:33
done. So I think you can bring some of the solutions in house but I don't know that
53:39
you're going to motivate anyone unless they're you know unless they understand you know their their financial what is
53:45
called Richard's call his financial statement of purpose. Um you talk about my girls and you like
53:52
hey if you don't do this you could screw up their futures. I'm like okay it'll be done it'll be done in an hour. Um
53:59
that makes sense. So I know we just got you know five more minutes here. We've had tons and tons of uh people uh in the
54:07
Q&A, but yeah, if there's anything on the screen behind you there, Justin, that we didn't um talk about that you
54:12
want to hit just briefly and we can answer some questions. I put at the bottom more pro more prospecting, less marketing. Um if
54:20
I've seen a trend over my 20 plus years is this confusion of prospecting and marketing being one and the same.
54:26
Prospecting is literally me looking at you, Justin, and asking you to do business with me in some fashion to move
54:33
forward together. And it requires me looking at you, asking you something that makes my stomach queasy as I await
54:40
your response in the affirmative or the negative. It's not like, hey, look at this amazing video series I've got and
54:46
all these people viewing and you know like we're all trying to craft our own
54:51
utopias in the profession and marketing is a very different thing and I think right now especially in advance of
54:58
whenever that next significant downturn is. You want to get really really good
55:03
at prospecting in the shortest most efficient fashion. And I wrote down
55:09
calculator talk where you can use a 10B2 calculator app, a $5 app on your phone,
55:14
but in three minutes with a random stranger at Starbucks, and I've done this in the past. I can literally say to
55:20
you that question, do you know how much you need? I'm shortening what I say. Do
55:25
you know how much you need? You don't. You want to find out in like three minutes? No charge. It's fun for me. I
55:30
mean, you need to know this, right? And then they you find out they have an adviser. Wait, you have an adviser and you didn't know this? Do you think it
55:36
might be at least 15 minutes to see what else we do? And the right ones raised their hand and
55:41
the other ones just, you know, go away. So, but prospecting is that it's asking
55:47
someone an uncomfortable question and you can market yourself. Go for it. You can do all the marketing you want, but
55:53
just don't confuse them. Linking up with people on LinkedIn is not prospecting. Sending a random like AI journey of
56:00
like, "Hey, nice to meet you." Like, pick up the phone and call them. So anyways, I'm off my soap box there, but
56:06
are there, you know, there are a bunch of questions. We have we have hit a bunch of them. I actually,
56:12
since I'm uh the MC, I guess I get to ask my question, which is you got a thing at the very top of your board
56:18
uh there to help families become and remain wealthy. Predictably,
56:24
predictably. Um I can guess what that is, but maybe talk a little bit more
56:29
about that. And um you know, you obviously have a lot of uh passion about what you do. I imagine that's related.
56:36
Yeah. Um I've had that on whatever board I've had. I've written that on the top of each new one if I've had a new one.
56:42
So it's always been there since like 2007ish. And it's just a reminder for me like what we do, why we do it, and and
56:48
it's predictably is, you know, there's no precision, right? Like as good as all of the tools are that that you guys
56:54
have, I mean, we're still guessing. They're just more sophisticated guesses, right? And but the the messaging is that
57:01
we you know I always want our families to know that this is what we're coming in to do every day is just give you the
57:07
most predictable journey loving journey that we can possibly give you. So again
57:13
you can maximize those years that you hope to have left that health that you hope to have left. Um and I don't know I
57:20
don't know why I put it up there and I don't know why it stayed but it it has everything else. I I love it. But I mean we talk a lot um
57:27
on really most of our webinars about like what's the point? What are you trying to do as an adviser and I think
57:33
that this is another way of saying things that a lot of people say who really thought about it. You know it's
57:39
not you know to give people the best returns or something like that. It's you know help them live the best most
57:45
meaningful life they can you know free of worry where possible uh with the resource that they have and the time and
57:51
health they're given. I mean it's really cool. So I love seeing that. I have one other statement and then you can ask
57:57
whatever you want which is I do think it's also good timing for people to uh be making contacts with their important
58:02
professionals or what others call COIs because when again when we go through a significant downturn that's exactly
58:08
what's going to be asked of those CPAs EAS attorneys you know oh by the way you
58:13
know who do you know that does a good job. Yeah. Awesome. Well, that's I mean we we've
58:20
been doing this a whole hour, Justin. As I as you mentioned, I know it's been a it's been a rough 24 hours. So, I really
58:26
appreciate this was a a great discussion, really good um ideas and
58:31
examples of of how to talk with clients. Uh we do have a a a recording of this, so a few people have said, "Oh, could
58:37
you say that again?" Well, you know, you just have to queue it up and find it. But uh um thank you so much, Justin.
58:43
Thank you, Neil. And thank you everyone for joining us. You're welcome. This is a lot of fun. Thank you, guys. Absolutely. Hope to see
58:48
you all guys soon. Take care. All right. See you.